31/08/10 September Competition: win a 'for the few' T-Shirt 23/08/10 Latest Thinkpieces published 22/08/10 7 in 10 demand lending rate cap to cover all forms of credit 09/08/10 End Legal Loan Sharking: latest coverage 02/08/10 End Legal Loan Sharking campaign launched today

Compass poll

Latest comments

End Legal Loan Sharks

Education and the Good Society Statement

Join Compass

Mailing list

Events

High Pay Commission

How to live in the 21st Century

News filter

Clegg’s lack of basic economics - George Irvin

Thursday, July 01 2010
Tags:
cuts | economy | Lib Dems

Speaking to John Humphrys on the Today programme a few days ago (24 June), Nick Clegg sounded particularly uncomfortable dealing with the verdict of the Institute of Fiscal Studies that the budget would hit the poor harder than the rich.

But Clegg's economic illiteracy revealed itself most clearly when he declared that the budget pain was absolutely necessary. In its absence, said Clegg, Britain would be paying £7bn per annum in debt service, a sum which would place an intolerable and unfair burden on our children for a generation.

I shan't quibble about the fact that £7bn is only half of one percent of current GDP, and that the austerity caused by this budget will on the Government's own reckoning reduce potential output growth by more than this. Indeed, according to David Blanchflower, the cuts will almost certainly bring about a double dip recession next year. The key question is whether running public sector deficit places a burden on future generations?

Nick Clegg repeatedly referred to the Greek debt crisis as an example of what might happen if we fail to make cuts. However, it is vital to understand that Britain is not like Greece in two important respects. First, the UK retains its own currency and Central Bank and thus the power to set interest rates, influence the exchange rate and so on. Secondly---and this is the key point---most public borrowing takes place within the UK, which has a large domestic secondary market for government bonds and other financial instruments.

When the UK Treasury borrows money, it sells bonds to the non-bank public; ie, to you and me. Such bonds appear on the government's books as a liability but on our books as an asset. Far from burdening our children with debt, when we (or our pension fund managers) buy government bonds, we are acquiring an asset which can be passed on to our children---plus the income stream which the asset pays out. Clegg's answer would certainly not get him through an undergraduate economics exam.

Of course, other conservative (with a small ‘c') politicians usually produce somewhat more sophisticated answers. For example, George Osborne regularly argues that increased government borrowing will drive up interest rates, thus ‘crowding out' private investment. This argument fails on two counts. Under present circumstances, the Bank of England can keep medium and long term interest rates down through quantitative easing, as indeed it has done in the recent past. But even allowing that borrowing raises interest rates, such a rise would need to lead to ‘full crowding out' for the argument to be correct. In economists' jargon, Britain's aggregate supply curve would need to be perfectly inelastic for full crowding out to occur.

Indeed, only a very few (and very conservative) economists believe that private sector investment is low because interest rates are too high. Most economists believe the opposite; namely, that the private sector is not investing because the effectiveness of interest rates is limited by the ‘liquidity trap'; in reality it is effective demand which is too low. As the case of Japan in the early 1990s shows clearly, even zero nominal interest rates cannot get an economy out of recession. What is needed in the sort of public spending which will ‘crowd in' private investment; ie, spending on new, better and greener economic and social infrastructure.

The ultimate refuge of the conservative politician is ‘Ah, but if we don't reign in public spending we will be attacked like Greece'. This argument has gained much traction in continental Europe, particularly on the centre-right in Germany. Again, the argument is hollow.

In the short term, the Greek crisis could have been avoided had the European Central Bank continued to buy Greek bonds regardless of their down-rating by the agencies. The very act of keeping the ECB window open would have greatly dampened speculative short selling, avoiding the disastrous fall in Greek bond prices. Most important, Britain is not Greece----its bond maturities are much longer that those of Greece and it hardly depends on foreign bond purchases. Indeed, because tax receipts have recently been rising, the Treasury has been able to cancel several planned bond auctions.

The real lesson of Clegg's ‘Today' interview is that although he may be ‘liberal to the core' as he insists, either his economic views are rooted in the orthodoxies of the post-Thatcher era, or he is playing the Merkel ‘frugal housewife' card for cynical political gain. Either way, the views he currently espouses on the budget do him little credit.

George Irvin

Share using AddThis AddThis

Want to write an article like this? If you’re a Compass member you can submit your own articles and start your own debates on the Compass debates member’s section, an autonomous space for our members to initiate debate and discuss ideas.

To keep updated on the latest Compass news, please join our mailing list.

Comments

  • ««
  • «
  • »
  • »»
1 to 13 of 13
Posted by Lee (Highlands)
on 17 July 2010, 12:05:42 PM
I will send John McDonnell an email and let you know if he replies
Posted by Lee (Highlands)
on 17 July 2010, 12:03:03 PM
Dugsie: Absolutely !! I cant imagine a more important agenda. It should be at the top of Compass' list, but from what I can see it hasnt even made the bottom of their list. Given that the main political parties in the UK have now largely morphed into a single entity with different coloured ties, I would be very surprised if such a list even exists. Part of the problem is that the UK government is one of the most secretive in the world about the details of the budget and public expenditure programme. One can find overall global figures on the internet, but consecutive governments have made sure that the detailed structure of the PEP remains obscure and inaccessible. And all sorts of things are hidden under headings and labels to avoid scrutiny, not just from the public but MPs too. I have participated in half a dozen public expenditure reviews in developing countries, so I pretty well know how it is done. There are many examples on the World Bank and IMF websites of complete reports. But without sufficient data, it is difficult to know where to start. It needs an MP, maybe a John McDonnell, to champion a project of this type and use freedom of information laws to get all the information needed. I see nothing like this happening...why is really a mystery to me. Why should we just trust Cameron and Clegg and then grumble ?
Posted by frances 
on 17 July 2010, 10:58:02 AM
'So shouldn't we on the Left have our own detailed and thought-through agenda for cuts which we should campaign for ? Our cuts versus their cuts.

I agree. Saying that there shouldn't be cuts makes them sound silly and childish.

But as their own spending priorities involved lots of wars and bullying the sick off benefits I don't know if I want to hear any more from any of them ever.
Posted by Dugsie (Yorks)
on 17 July 2010, 10:39:52 AM
Lee

Defending working class living standards, the level of employment and essential public services in the name of Keynesianism, won't get us very far. Clearly there is a credit credibility problem for the UK and a fear of converting bust into boom, somewhere down the line. It's not all about demand management, it is about structure and key social and political issues.

So shouldn't we on the Left have our own detailed and thought-through agenda for cuts which we should campaign for ? Our cuts versus their cuts. The much mentioned Trident system and other 'defence' expenditure should only be the start of our list. We could go on and look at all aspects of society to determine where desirable cuts could be made. The prison system, the extended royal family, tax evasion and so on. Somebody, somewhere must surely have begun such a list.
Posted by Lee (Highlands)
on 17 July 2010, 8:39:50 AM
Dugsie: Fully agree. Neo-liberalism is not based on empirical evidence. It is the economic expression of a political stance. As you suggest, when one hears main-stream economists, including Irvin, opine, one must remember that what they are speaking from is similar to a catechism rather than scientifically derived constructs. I was descending to Irvin's level for a moment to point out that even within the catechism, it is ridiculous to suggest that government spending can boost domestic and export demand in this sitaution. Britain has one of OECD's highest (if not the highest) rates of private debt as well as trade deficit. The stimulus package was a method of testing the hypothesis that supply-side boosts in cash would increase demand. It didnt..it was almost irrelevant to the problem and left Britain with its largest public debt ever (the same happened in the USA). The problem in terms of demand is structural, meaning that in domestic terms it is related to the size of private debt and the fact that what is being produced and offered is either not needed or irrelevant. It isnt even clear that either the stimulus package or continued government spending has even had more than a passing influence on job creation. In export terms, British goods and services are simply too expensive to compete with emerging competitors or irrelevant to external market demand. Spending more government money cannot possibly have any impact on this problem. Britain de-industrialised without a strategy to fill the export gap and is now simply living with the consequences.

Because continued high levels of government spending is largely irrelevant in this situation to domestic and external demand, doesnt mean that I support the Coalition cuts. It is true that the public debt has to be repaid otherwise confidence in the UK economy will sink even lower than it is now. (The same is true in the US, but Obama has no way of repaying the debt anyway). But as I have said many times before, the correct approach is to debate the entire public expenditure programme. It is the act of a total fool to cut social spending while Britain has the second largest military budget in the world. The public investment programme is full of slush, but it is precisely the slush that the ESTABLISHMENT (whether Newlabour or Tory/Lib-Dem) is determined to maintain. Both Newlabour and the government lie to the people constantly about public spending, and we sit there being lied to and mutter into our tea.

Mr Irvin's ideas are irrelevant to this debate, are are typical of a post-Friedman monetarist with a touch of campari progressivism. The reality is that there is no stark difference between Newlabour and Coalition economic policy. Newlabour would have ended up doing very similar things under different labels. Its all to do with marketing, not policy. Neither group has anything other than neo-liberal goobledygook to guide them. You and I know that there are socialist alternatives. SHRIEK !!! Someone said "socialist"!!!...just like Obama !!! (Americans think Obama is a socialist !!) The mediocrity of those in public office both in Britain and the USA is truly stunning. Our leaders are the political equivalents of Bluebottle from the Goonshow.
Posted by Dugsie (Yorks)
on 17 July 2010, 8:00:31 AM
Lee

Economic literacy is about knowing the various competing economic theories. Knowing and understanding them in their complexity doesn't tell us what policies are appropriate to our present, or any other, situation. The dismal science is not only more dismal than ever, it is even less of a science. It is really. a matter of politics and ideology. The present coalition government is united in its leadership in a common commitment to neoliberalism. The potential division in its ranks is within the two political parties, rather than between them. The class bias of neoliberalism is very clear to those of us who are familiar with the struggle for survival of the sick and disabled and their carers. It was when New Labour formed the government. Now the coalition are extending the campaign to make the working class generally pay for the crisis caused by the neoliberal policy of facilitating profit maximisation. The bankers, speculators, tax evaders and the rest have been bailed out by the state, which they affect to despise so much. Now they are determined to reduce the key services on which so many depend.

Who among the Labour leadership contenders promises to lead the opposition to this assault on working class living standards, after renouncing the neoliberalism of New Labour ? John McDonnell would have done, if the gatekeepers in the PLP and the NEC had allowed him to stand. Dianne Abbott seems to be the only acceptable alternative remaining.
Posted by Lee (Highlands)
on 16 July 2010, 9:49:51 PM
I suspect that George Irvin is correct about Clegg's economic illiteracy; but I fear that Mr Irvin would also fail in his under-grad exams. There is no evidence that government spending will restore domestic or export demand for British products and services. This, Mr Irvin, should remember, from his econ 101 classes, is a structural not a fiscal problem.
Posted by Dugsie (Yorks)
on 10 July 2010, 3:02:24 PM

Have a look at moneynewsdotcom


'The U.S. economy is in the “early stages” of a depression, one which will be much more severe than the Great Depression, Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman warns.'
Posted by Sean Delaney (London)
on 09 July 2010, 11:12:33 PM
The Libcon coalition are slashing public spending in line with the same disastrous policies that preceded the Great Depression of the 1930s.
What interests me is why no-one on the thinking Left appears to have taken up the ideas of the neo-Ricardian economists, people like Fred Harrison, who have been calling for a radical reform of the land rent laws - Harrison even predicted the crisis of 2008 sometime in advance (it wasn't just Roubini!)
Martin Wolf discusses the issue in todays Financial Times, and Harrison's website lays out some of the ideas clearly.
Are any of the candidates for the Labour leadership engaging with these ideas or are we in for just a warmed over neo-liberalist agenda, yet again?
renegadeeconomist(dot)com
Posted by Paul McLean (Leeds)
on 05 July 2010, 11:49:48 AM
The brief discussion on the price of money and the role of investment and the banks, (Today c8:40) is worth listening to.
Posted by Paul McLean (Leeds)
on 03 July 2010, 1:25:04 PM
In appraising Nick Clegg’s economic positions as described on the Today programme, George Irvin avoids the other part of the interview, which was about Clegg’s attitude towards and definition of, the welfare state. The Irvin position is perfectly reasonable in narrow economic terms. He makes points and arguments, which need to be made and understood. But it is not just Clegg’s ‘lack of basic economics’ that is at issue here; after all from the what is now pretty orthodox view of the neo-liberal market economy, Clegg’s views do not lack very much at all.

No less important than the Lib Dem position on the economy is how it is ‘sold’ to the long-suffering middle income and lower than middle-income earner and voter. Vivid and cogent as George Irvin’s economic appraisal is, Clegg and his colleagues are in effect selling how they intend to deal with the economic crisis on the backs of all of those who are paraded as scapegoats and otherwise black sheep, because they receive certain types of benefit, and now almost by definition are being declared, ‘the undeserving poor,’ if not actually public pariah’s.

Three times John Humphries asked why the poorest 10% of the population should have to pay anything towards resolving an economic crisis they did not create. Humphries might also have added, did not significantly benefit by when what is now a bust, was a boom. Pressed hard and frequently by Humphries on the impact of the VAT increase, all Clegg could do was find weasel words between ducking and diving.

A point Clegg made and one worth considering by neo-liberals who disagree with him and the Coalition, is that some additional £44b unfounded cuts were found in the ‘new labour’ undergrowth.

George Irvin and others who accept the neo-liberal settlement and are prepared to broadly dispute with Capital, the Tories and the Lib Dems within it, very reasonably express fears about avoiding a double dip recession. Such a thing would no doubt be something like a catastrophe. It would not only impoverish many on middle and lower than middle incomes whom the neo-liberal parties are anxious to placate and keep on side, it would also begin to lap at the economic standing and social status of the elite, opinion giving political and cultural strata, who earn substantially more than the average income; and are not untypically members of householders were there are two earners each on substantially more than an average income.

There are times when it seems that the only difference between the political and cultural elites is how strong they think to be the likelihood of a double dip recession. For the majority of the population however, the cuts in the economy and society without a double dip to the recession are going to be hard enough to endure as things stand.
Posted by Dugsie (Yorks)
on 02 July 2010, 10:49:24 AM
Clegg is liberal to the core. Classical liberal, in its revised form, neoliberal. He shares that narrative with David Cameron. It's no accident that they have formed an alliance so readily. It is really more than just political expediency.

The most obvious alternative narrative currently is neo-Keynsian, but it doesn't necessarily provide the long-term answers. A neo-Marxist understanding may be more enlightening in the long run.
Posted by Brian Lynch 
on 02 July 2010, 10:16:15 AM
The question then, is George Osborne a puppet of the city of London? and did Nick Clegg sell his political soul for a shot at PR? My vote says yes on both counts.

  • ««
  • «
  • »
  • »»
1 to 13 of 13

 

Leave a comment

About you










Your comment

Please do not use HTML tags in your comment as they will be displayed as normal text.

We take no responsibility for the content of comments posted on this website, which represent the views of their authors alone.

Please enter the two words in the image below. This is an anti-spam measure designed to prove that you are a human, not a computer.