13/10/12 George Osborne's austerity is costing an extra £76bn, says IMF [The Guardian] 01/10/12 Just 50 months to tackle climate change [The Guardian] 13/09/12 Don't target this HBOS banker - the real enemy is the system that made him [The Guardian]

End the Big Six Fix

Plan B: sign the petition

In the public interest

The Good Banking Forum

Mailing list

Events

Join Compass


News filter
  • Photo
  • Photo
  • Photo
  • Photo
  • Photo
  • Photo
  • Photo
  • Photo
  • Photo
  • Photo
  • Photo
  • Photo

Compass Decides: tactical voting in the general election

Friday, April 30 2010

Over the last week we gave our members the decision as to whether Compass should advocate tactical voting in the forthcoming general election. For some the issue is obvious, a matter they have practised themselves for years. But for others, such a move hits hard against strongly held party loyalties. We do however have a very clear result.

The result of the ballot is that 72% (467) of members backed the call for tactical voting with only 14% (93) against. There were 14% (90) abstentions/spoilt papers. This is the biggest return we have ever had on an internal ballot - if you're not yet a member of Compass and would like a vote next time and a full say in the organisation: then join now.

This means that Compass is now calling on every progressive voter to back the Labour candidate wherever Labour can win. But if Labour stands no chance against the Tory candidate it makes sense that the best placed progressive candidate is backed by every progressive voter.

To help inform your decision we have produced a key marginal seats information table based on the 2005 general election results, so that in each marginal you can make an informed decision as to who the best placed progressive candidate is. Click here to download it.

The key issue now is denying the Tories outright power, but in doing so recognising that power is likely to be shared. However much the parties have converged on the same space, and however much people have been disappointed by Labour in government, clear differences still exist between progressives and the Tories. Clearly the best hope of progressive politics, of something better than this, lies first in keeping the Tories out. Only then can we start the process of building a new politics in which greater equality, sustainability and democracy take us on the journey to the good society.

In the last week of the campaign new mood music has to be created in which a progressive alliance can come together to keep alive the possibility of a progressive century. If we are now in an era of three party politics then the party that fails to build a partnership condemns itself to the wilderness. As well as emphasising policies to get its core vote out, like interest rate caps, uprating the minimum wage, a living wage for public sector workers and the fact that the state still matters, Labour must show it is ready to deal with a hung parliament and now willing to have a referendum on a a more proportional voting system than just AV.

Compass will continue to ensure it is our members that make the big calls - and there will no doubt be more ballots in the future. We know some will be disappointed with the result and we understand why. Compass sees the Labour Party as a necessary but insufficient vehicle in the creation of the good society. We know the progressive alliance we seek means working inside and outside of Labour - with all the creative tensions that position entails. Sometimes we will be too Labour for some tastes, other times not Labour enough - but it is the ability to be inside and out that gives us our strength. Bear with us, it is the right course.

Over the coming weeks and months there are likely to be more tough decisions Compass is going to face. But now all that matters is to turn out the progressive vote and avoid the divisions that gave the Tories power throughout the 1980s. If we can stop them winning they will implode for a generation. In a post crash world this is an election the centre-left should and must win. Use your vote wisely and campaign as never before to get others to do the same. Britain does need change - but it doesn't need the same old Tories.

Share using AddThis AddThis

Want to write an article like this? If you’re a Compass member you can submit your own articles and start your own debates on the Compass debates member’s section, an autonomous space for our members to initiate debate and discuss ideas.

To keep updated on the latest Compass news, please join our mailing list.

Comments

1 to 50 of 72
Posted by Sane 
on 07 May 2010, 7:44:43 PM
Agree with Ball: The Lib Dems are just not to be trusted...they are the bridesmaid with a potential suitor for the first time in so many years.
Posted by Sane 
on 07 May 2010, 7:43:14 PM
Since, had it not been for the Tories lying in wait, we would have all enjoyed New Labour taking a good kicking (being unemployed I cannot say that the dismissal of Knight, Minister of "welfare to work", did not raise a smile with me, even though I think the Tories picked the seat up), this is one perspective to hold on the Tories gaining over ninety seats.

The Tories only hit 36% of the vote. With how universally unpopular New Labour had been, this was not a good performance. Labour and Lib Dems together beat 50%. Okay, we can get all cute and draw fine lines between points of political purity, but since the Tories are the unchangeable snake, the first priority must be in beating them. The context should be social democratic, not market fundamentalist.

Labour lost so much support in the North West, North East and in Yorkshire and Humber. Will the Party see the errror of its ways? Can the votes lost be won again; is it arrogant and anachronistic to consider them only on loan to the Tories?

The one bright-spot, as somebody else has mentioned, is that the BNP did very poorly; and Farage crashed, of course.

The fear now is what the Tories will be able to make of the situation: Try to govern; be obstructed at some point; have the Tory press denounce the opposition as just luddite throw-backs; the people (sheep) who have been given the lead to vote Tory now flock to them.

Clegg says that the largest single party gets to go first in trying to form a workable government. What about the social democratic hears split across Labour and Lib Dem voters, that is larger than the market fundamentalist heart amongst Tory voters? Have not the Lib Dems bleated about PR? They could not just give it away so cheaply in return for a seat at the table?

To yous who have rejoined the Labour Party... full respect like, but how will you wrest democratic control from the party hierarchy centralisers?
Posted by Malcolm Ball (Ossett, west yorkshire)
on 07 May 2010, 7:38:57 PM
I suspect much of the optimism is misplaced. Clegg may be the leader of the Liberal Democrats but is a natural Tory with a shared background with Cameron. They will do a deal. It will be ant-Labour. Their project will be to create a system of PR that the Tories can live with and then go to the country. At this time progressives should be working on Lib Dems in seats which have returned a Lib Dem MP. Their task is to promote a progressive agenda and undermine the ability of Clegg to do a deal.
Posted by Harry Barnes (Dronfield)
on 07 May 2010, 5:22:58 PM
For Lee read Lewis.
Posted by Harry Barnes (Dronfield)
on 07 May 2010, 5:20:30 PM
Lee : Welcome back to the fold. There is an attempt to keep us all sane on "Threescoreyearsandten".
Posted by Dugsie (Yorks)
on 07 May 2010, 5:10:24 PM
I'm ecstatic Lewis. Write a pome to celebrate. I hope that you can tolerate Lee's disapproval.
Posted by Lewis Parry (Elx)
on 07 May 2010, 3:46:53 PM
More good news Dugsie,I have rejoined Labour to fight to make it the social democratic party it must become.
Only the Belgian Secret Service can stop us now.
Posted by Dugsie (Yorks)
on 07 May 2010, 3:17:18 PM
LRC supported MPs who have won seats
John Cryer
Katy Clark
John McDonnell
Jeremy Corbyn
Kelvin Hopkins
Mike Wood
Ronnie Campbell
Martin Caton
Paul Flynn
Nia Griffith
David Hamilton
David Heyes
Ian Lavery
Michael Meacher
Austin Mitchell
Linda Riordan
Mike Skinner
Posted by Toby Lloyd (Hackney)
on 07 May 2010, 11:15:07 AM
There are some very positive results for progressives in general and Compass in particular, amid the damp trickle of Tory gains: Jon Cruddas and Chuka Umunna winning, BNP thrashed, Karen Buck and Emily Thornberry holding on against the odds, Caroline Lucas becoming first Green MP to name a few.

Whatever the outcome of the inevitable period of haggling and horsetrading to come, this result shows that Compass got it right in calling for tactical voting and an anti-tory progressive consensus. And we may even get real constitutional change out the end....
Posted by Brian Lynch 
on 07 May 2010, 11:08:41 AM
This could be a real winner for social democracy getting back on the agenda. The electoral system will have to change, LibDems and the smaller parties will demand it. Labour will have to move left to accomodate the smaller parties, lets look at the positives here. The Greens get a seat, NewLabour get a good kicking, the Tories can't get a majority. The BNP are knowhere, Jacqui Smith and Charles Clarke lose their seats, pity that Blears did'nt but you can't win them all. Scotland still the real heartland for Labour with absolutely no mandate from the right.Ashcroft has wasted his millions, the Murdoch press are in hysterics, the tory toffs are stamping their feet and crying into the champers and pimms. But best of all no chance of right wing Tory policies, and Cameron and his big business cronies completely in limbo.
No a bad result in my book.
Posted by Robert 
on 07 May 2010, 9:10:49 AM
Come on it's not only the media which loves the America way, Brown does as well, it's not worked for him this time, but I suspect in the future both major parties will use the American bull shit style and pomp.

Blair/Brown love things American the welfare reforms, New Deal,Pathways to work, workfare are all American, all labour did was take them remove the bits they did not like and put it forward, of course the bits they dumped were the best parts for a disabled person.

This was really my last vote, I shall not bother anymore unless the voting regime changes, and if brown now stays in power god help us all.
Posted by Dugsie (Yorks)
on 07 May 2010, 9:04:59 AM
Stage one would be a coalition agreement Between Labour and the Lib Dems, based on constitutional and electoral reform. Stage two would be a working arrangement with the SNP and PC, based on a transfer of funds form London to Edinburgh and Cardiff.

I'm merely describng it, not advocating it.
Posted by Lee (Highlands)
on 07 May 2010, 8:11:27 AM
For me, the most obnoxious moment of the BBC coverage of the election was David Miliband's smug, dishonest, spivvy appearance. This man is even more unpleasant and untrustworthy than his hero, Tony Blair. God help us if Labour selects him as its next leader.

I think Brown has a real problem convincing the nation that two failed parties, Newlabour and Lib-Dems, should govern together. It may be the best outcome in terms of policy, especially if Clegg stands tough; but it would be very "Unbritish"..and would reveal how hypocritical his pronouncements on "Britishness" were. But I have never had any expectations of him.

Real losers ? The Media. It was, in my view, an appalling mistake to make these elections American. The debates were trivialising, and gave the media a chance to simply make things up, like "Cleggmania", which simply werent true. I cannot understand the media obsession with wanting to model Britain on the immaturity and dishonesty of the US electoral system. We have a great democratic tradition, and the media want us to ditch that for disney and big macs. I think my friend Stan would agree with me on this.
Posted by Robert (Swansea)
on 07 May 2010, 1:33:56 AM
Well Campbell has said at 1.25 am that labour has lost, now Blunkett has stated with a massive swing like this the Tories will win this election.

Everyone is saying it's all over for Labour.

And I cannot say it's unexpected labour in the past four years or three years under brown have been a night mare.

We are told that in the future labour will need to renew it's self, have these idiots not learned anything, this country does not need two Tory parties it needs a party which is Tory and one which is socialist.

As for the liberals it looks like they will gain a swing but not to many seats.

But at 1.20 again we are told it's over for labour
Posted by Harry Barnes (Dronfield)
on 06 May 2010, 10:23:54 AM
Lee : It is for other to judge, but I don't think that I am the one who makes a habit of putting my foot in my mouth. I am now off to vote Labour, but without illusions. But that has been my analysis since I first put a cross on a ballot paper in 1959 - even when I was later a candidate. If the result of this one leads to an alteration in the nature of British politics, then who knows what the future will hold. But at my age I think that Labour will continue to see me out - again without illusions. Still watch out for "Dronfield Blather" at 10 pm.
Posted by Lee (Highlands)
on 05 May 2010, 10:34:56 AM
Harry Barnes (Dronfield)

Lee ; People can learn to walk and chew gum at the same time.
**************************************************************
In this case, not an apt analogue. A better way to characterise it is whether you can walk and suck your big toe at the same time. I think you are, if you are very lucky, left with hopping. That is how I see the left within Labour that is fighting to get Brown and Mandelsohn re-elected.

Of course, anything is possible, and being a dedicated life-long Real-Labour supporter, I would be delighted if it worked. I am just pretty sure it wont...the left in Labour has been making speeches, rebelling, and taking positions ever since Blair raped the party, and I dont see that they have made any visible dent on the armour of Blairism within which Newlabour is clothed. So why should it be any different for the next ten years ? If you can explain to me the reasons to be optimistic, I can try to change my views. I ask this often, and all I ever receive are statements of ideology and excerpts from the credo.
Posted by Dugsie (Yorks)
on 04 May 2010, 6:04:32 PM
We have to wait and see what happens after the election. New Labour weakened and divided, may be a different kettle of ball games.Of course, if you have elected to leave the Labour Party,then you won't be able to help in this particular battle.
Posted by Harry Barnes (Dronfield)
on 04 May 2010, 4:00:03 PM
Lee ; People can learn to walk and chew gum at the same time. It is possible for some of us to work within the Labour Party advocating democratic socialism, whilst also working in association with others outside the Labour Party on other democratic socialist projects. Look out for the blog "Dronfield Blather" at 10 pm at the close of the polls on Thursday for an item from Ken Curran which will pursue this type of line.
Posted by Lee (Highlands)
on 04 May 2010, 1:45:53 PM
I cannot understand, Dugsie, why the groups you mention (authentic social democrats, democratic socialists, green socialists, and socialist democrats) would want to have anything to do with left labour members who chose to remain in the right-wing party of Mandelsohn and war criminal Blair, the party that continued the legacy of Thatcher, and still regards Bush as its role model and hero. Such an alliance will happen ONLY if (a) the left take control of Newlabour, purge it of Blairism, and re-establish it as the Labour Party (and you know that is not going to happen); or (b) they leave Newlabour. An alliance with Clegg will ensure the end of Brown, but it is likely to cement the power of the Blairites in the party. I wish I didnt have to say this, because I remain committed to the best of Labour's legacy, but I am afraid you are going to have a very small, rancourous, lonely, and ultimately futile alliance. You know how splinter left groups behave when they are urged to work together. I see no reason to see why it would be different this time. There are at least six parties in Scotland all claiming to be the only authentic socialists, and the venom they throw at one another is very illustrative of what happens on the left.
Posted by Paul McLean (Leeds)
on 04 May 2010, 12:33:15 PM
I am not sure that ‘new labour’ has embraced Compass’s tactical voting strategy. All that has happened is that Compass has sought to place itself at the front of a debate that was already going on in the LP. A bit of opportunistic leapfrogging within a relatively small but well-connected and networked series of elites, does not put Compass in any different or influential a position than that to which it usually lays claim. Fortuitous timing for the group who run Compass, nonetheless.

We must hope that potentially disillusioned Labour voters have already posted their ballot papers, for it seems that Messrs Balls and Hain have all but thrown in the towel two days before the day of the election. Brown has said today that he will go without fuss or struggle. That Labour two days before an election should be in such a state that the PM is asked such a question is one thing: that the PM felt that he could not with political credibility do other than concede to the premise of the question and answer it in its terms as presented, is something just as revealing.
Posted by Lewis Parry (Elx)
on 04 May 2010, 11:38:54 AM
Dugsie,the sdp may have led me up the garden path,but at least we went the scenic route!
Posted by  
on 04 May 2010, 10:47:45 AM
Brilliant article by George Monbiot.

There's a parasite called Toxoplasma gondii that colonises the brains of rats, altering their behaviour to attract them to the scent of their predators. The rats seek out cats and get eaten, allowing the parasite to keep circulating. This is New Labour. It has colonised a movement that fought for social justice, distribution and decency, rewired its brain and delivered it to the fat cats who were once its enemies.

Cling on to nurse for fear of something worse. Though she has become crabbed and vicious, though she has usurped our parents, swiped our inheritance, binned our toys and sold the nursery, we must cower behind her skirts for fear of the beasts that prowl beyond. This, in essence, is what Polly Toynbee, Jonathan Freedland, Seumas Milne and Nick Cohen are now telling us to do.

By instructing us, over the years, to heed fears, not hopes, such voices have allowed Labour to abandon everything it once stood for, and hand us, trussed and oven-ready, to big business and the Daily Mail. We'll be trapped like this for ever, in New Labour's Bermuda triangulation, unless we vote for what we believe in rather than just against what we don't.

This paralysing fear has licensed four tragic developments. It has allowed a parliamentary consensus to form that is well to the right of public feeling, alienating voters. It has created space for ideas – such as the creeping privatisation of almost everything – which were unacceptable to previous generations. It has allowed the Conservatives to appeal to moderate swing voters: if there is so little that divides the two parties, such voters figure, can the Tories really be so bad? And it has permitted a once progressive party to form the most rightwing government this country has suffered since 1945.

**********************8

That's great Danny. No one is asking you to become a social liberal. Keep your identity as a socialist by all means. But the situation is that NewLabour have killed the Labour Party and are proving impossible to dislodge. So for the purposes of removing NewLabour from control - the left hae to work with allies like Compass - which means staying civil, positive and friendly.

I know the idea that they might be able to reclaim the party in a way the real left can't is very annoying but politics is about realities.
Posted by Dugsie (Yorks)
on 04 May 2010, 9:46:40 AM
Danny makes sense. Although his position isn't identical to mine, there is an overlap and I recognise the logic in what he is saying. I am all in favour of alliance, but is must be based on principle and shared objectives.

Compass are now talking about a 'progressive' alliance a terminology Progress have been using for some time. Social liberals are their obvious immediate allies.There is, of course, nothing wrong with that, but it should surely be overt rather than covert.

It isn't an alliance which I can support, which is why I am no longer a member of Compass. I want an alliance of authentic social democrats, democratic socialists, green socialists and, what I call, socialist democrats. This alliance needs to extend beyond the Labour Party, but the Labour Party will continue to exist. We can't accept that the party will continue to be controlled by New Labour, even in a reconstituted form. What happens next will depend upon the outcome of the general election.
Posted by Lee (Highlands)
on 04 May 2010, 9:14:32 AM
Well, its official. Newlabour has embraced Compass's tactical voting strategy. Wouldnt it have been nice if Fish-in-his-Mooth Broon had done his own dirty work instead of sending hie peon Balls to make the announcement ? Quite aside from the merit of tactical voting, which I support because I want neither Newlabour (note: there is at the moment no Labour) nor the Tories to hold power, the way this was done is so mawkish and cowardly, its going to cost them dearly. Even when Newlabour, occasionally and usually by accident, stumble across a good idea, they turn it into a cow pat by their clumsy, incompetent way of introducing it.

Is this all we can draw from this incident ? Tea leaf readers could well do a Sherlock Holmes and deduce from this (a) Broon and his fish know they are going to lose; (b) Broon will resign; (c) Broon is trying to manoevre Ed Balls into the leadership stakes. So will Broon be able to pass the flounder to Balls ? Will Balls change his name by deed-poll ? Could the world or UK ever accept "Premier Balls" ? Cn you imagine how many "ANOTHER BALLS-UP" headlines we would get from the Sun ? Could Harriet Harman increase her chances by going onto page three ? Would you be comfortable with a leader stupid enough to get caught by the police for using a mobile while driving ?

Do we no aspirer
Higher ?

I think Lewis, as Compass Poet Laureat, should comment. I am also looking forward to his official Pre-Election Ode !
Posted by danny (manchester)
on 04 May 2010, 8:42:33 AM
In any discussion it is important to listen carefully to what the other person says. I have not been particularly hostile to Compass, I have only said that they are not on the same political terrain as I thought they might be. They are radical liberals who think that they can bring about a synthesis of liberalism and socialism. I don't accept that. Nor have I said that there should be a bust up with Compass. Only that they Democratic Socialists need their own voice so that we can be heard in the ddebates which are to come.
Posted by Robert (Swansea)
on 03 May 2010, 12:20:06 PM
Not a case of people being against Compass what is compass is the question.

Or have you all short memories of Cruddas telling us to fight the welfare reforms and then not turning up to vote, Or Trickett telling us to fight like hell the 90 day detention then the prick runs off and votes for it.

Then we had compass telling us to give brown a chance let him show us his vision, sadly the gent had no vision, and he has now allowed labour to need to fight to stay in second place.

Compass and labour are two different groups both have no real contact one pretends to be left the other has no pretense at all.

New labour has given the Liberals a life, and it's down to brown.
Posted by frances 
on 03 May 2010, 11:26:06 AM
I am afraid in the choppy seas ahead as Gordon resigns and the Labour Party leadership breaks up some democratic socialists may see themselves as rivals to social democrats to inherit the wounded rump of the Labour Party. The fight will them be between the two as against the two acting as allies and fighting together to get the party back from NewLabour.

It's the only explanation I can see to the extreme hostility to Compass that keeps errupting from the left.

Posted by Bill Raymond (Manchester)
on 03 May 2010, 11:20:10 AM
Yes Danny - the alliance needs to be with socialists outside Labour and also the Greens, who have by far the most coherent and progressive manifesto (although surprisingly poor on environment). Forget the Liberal Opportunist Party - here their latest policy initiaitive is the failure of the (actually rather well run) Labour council's 'failure to repair the pot holes in the roads'. Ultimately this broad left-green alliance could lead to the long awaited end of illusion for socialists in the Labour Party who always seem to think that next time it will come right (one more heave, we can capture the leadersip, etc etc.). Problem is the Respect and RMT fantasists haven't exactly presented a vision of how we all might live better by stepping off the treadmill of capital accumulation and economic growth.
Richard Wilkinson gets it about right in his New Pepper mini article see (sorry you'll have to google it this won't let me link)
(Not really) surprising to see no mention anywhere here of the analysis in 'Beyond Feelbad Britain' or of the conjuctural analysis in the recent Soundings - but that (as revealed yet again below) is all of a piece with the empiricism of Laour in a country where 'intellectual' is an insult.
Posted by Dugsie (Yorks)
on 03 May 2010, 11:08:57 AM
'My recommendation is to follow Gavin and Neal,the happy wanderers,and ignore the siren calls of a simple gospel of purified socialism.'

As I recall,the last you made a recommendation Lewis, it was to follow the SDP. Not that I am opposed to an authentic social democracy, but they were.
Posted by Lewis Parry (Elx)
on 03 May 2010, 10:46:47 AM
Dugsie,a compass can point in two directions simultaneously,however,...
if you follow one it will lead you safely over the mountain pass,but the
other hurls you over the abyss.My recommendation is to follow Gavin and Neal,the happy wanderers,and ignore the siren calls of a simple gospel of purified socialism.
Posted by Sane 
on 03 May 2010, 9:52:43 AM
We have neither Lenin nor Jesus standing. We must do the best we can with what we have, pitiable in so many cases though it may be.

Posted by Brian Lynch 
on 03 May 2010, 9:43:43 AM
Danny, the priority is to keep the Tories out of government. This can only be achieved
by all spectrums of the left voting tactically for a hung parliament. Many left wingers now support various parties, due to NewLabour's transition into the Tory Party MK11. In an ideal world we could vote for a real socialist alternative, but at the moment that does not exist. If we try and do this now one thing will happen, a Tory majority. If your comments are correct about Compass, especially regards the USA political scene. Then believe me it will not only be my resignation that they will be getting.
Posted by Dugsie (Yorks)
on 03 May 2010, 9:28:20 AM
How many different directions can a compass simultaneously point in ?
Posted by Harry Barnes (Dronfield)
on 03 May 2010, 9:16:55 AM
The democratic socialist alternative to Compass could be called "New Compass"! After all we once had the New Left and its review. The word "new" has a very old tradition.
Posted by danny (manchester)
on 03 May 2010, 7:56:04 AM
Lee, You simply aren't reading what I have said. What I am saying is that Compass's tactics reveal all we need to know about the Compass leadership. They are focussed on an anti-Tory alliance based on liberal and democratic grounds. Some of us had hoped that Compass was led be socialists not radical liberals. It is not. Compass has no orientation on class issues at all. Nor has it ever developed a critique of Capitalism. It is almost exclusively focussed on influencing elite groups in London based on a criticism of the British State and the New Labour project. It is revealing for example that it looks to the Right - the LibDems - for an alliance, rather than to the Left (Respect, SWP, Campaign group etc). In my view we need a Democratic Socialist renewal rather than a pale pink social democratic initiative. Sadly Compass cannot provide the space for this process. The majority of Left activists in the labour Party can sense this and therefore the engagement of Party members in Compass is on the decline
Posted by BRIAN (LONDON)
on 03 May 2010, 7:39:29 AM
YOUR ALL GONNA BE VARY SUPRISED ON ELECTION DAY , 66% OF THE COUNTRY DONT WANT A BAR OF CAMRON AND HIS CONS , I THINK 66% OF THE COUNTRY ARNT STUPID, THEY KNOW WHAT TO DO TO STOP CAMRONS RIGHTWING NUT JOBS FROM WINNING . IM A LIB DEM IN VOTEING LABOUR TO STOP THE CONSERVITIVE CANDIDATE . THE CONS DONT HAVE ANYONE TO VOTE TACTICLY WITH 77% OF CENTER LEFT VOTERS IN MARGINALS VOTE TACTICLY TO KEEP OUT THE TORIES . SO DONT BE SUPRISED TO SEE LABOUR WIN OR DO A DEAL WITH THE LIBS TO STAY IN POWER. ANYONE BUT THE NASTY CONSERVITIVE PARTY.
Posted by Lee (Highlands)
on 03 May 2010, 12:21:40 AM
I find the comments of Danny and Brian most odd. I wouldnt disagree that Compass is muddled and confused about its ultimate goal...yes, its noit good enough to just want to keep the Tories out of power. But I think Compass should be congratulated on its courage to refuse to accept the demand for orthodoxy that New Labour is sending to what is left of its supporters. Neither nor Brian offer any alternatives to Compasses position, aside for voting for an administration that has dismantled whatever was left of Labour's socialist legacy, engaged in war crimes in support of the most reactionary US adminidtration in modern times, betrayed the trade union movement, and supported the bankers and the rich elite.Compass is not without its faults; but its willingness to look more broadly, beyond Peter Mandelsohn and Tony Blair, for an authentic identifivcation with the working people of this nation, should, in my opinion, be celebrated, rather than cross-haired for attack by those willing to ignore the crimes and egressions of New Labour. In its essence, those who are calling for a mindless vote for Labour, are those who support Tony Blair's alliance with Goerge Bush and Silvio Berlusconi, and the Blair betrayal of the working class and the trade union movement. A vote for Labour is a vote for the illegal invasion of Iraq !
Posted by Mad as a Hatter 
on 02 May 2010, 6:43:02 PM
Breaking News! You can now get good odds on Gordon Brown resigning as Labour Party leader by May 7th in most betting shops. Compass members should consider betting on that as a winner rather than betting on Labour getting re-elected.
Posted by danny (manchester)
on 02 May 2010, 5:50:25 PM
Brian Lynch, you need to be honest about the forces which are at play in British politics. The Guardianistas - of whom Compass are the radical wing - have never bought into a democratic soclialist labour party. In this, they have much in common with the right wing of the Labour Party. There has long been an attempt to create a Democratic party as in America. This would consist of a party which fuses liberal and the mildest social democratic traditions. Crucially there would be no critique of capitalism and the party would have no links with the organised working class. Democratic Socialists on the other hand have been prepared to work as a minority within the labour party which has given the most fertile political ground for our politics. We too have had a critique of new labour but the domination of Labour in recent years by new labourites is not a grounds for abandoning our project. It is clear now that Compass are part of the group who wish to engage in an essentially anti socialist project. We can work with Compass on a limited number of issues, but there will have to be an alternative home for the progressive socialists who remain committed to workwithin the Labour and Trades Union movements. Incidentally, the Unions have now seen through Compass and will not work with them in the future
Posted by Brian Lynch 
on 02 May 2010, 5:04:07 PM
"Compass - you blew it for all socialists who believed in you" I disagree as this does not square with the campaigns organised
by Compass. If anyone blew it try Gordon Brown, and his perception of voters, incompetent ministers being allowed out of the westminster bubble etc. New Labour's betrayal of social democracy from '97 adopting and saving free market capitalism.
Illegal wars, increasing the unequal society, sabotaging PR after it being in the manifesto. Compass in its literature has constantly called for a fairer society based on the social democratic Swedish model. Perhaps if the Labour Party gets back to reality, probably either in opposition or a hung parliament. Then all social democrats will return, even the LRC and its MPs are almost a different party.
Incidently i hope that John McDonnell et al keep their seats. The left is now spread across several parties, lets hope that this coalition can keep out the Tories.
Posted by Lee (Dumfriesshire)
on 02 May 2010, 2:32:26 PM
As a lifelong Liberal and Liberal Democrat it is with very mixed feelings I am forced to come to the conclusion that I must vote for Labour's Russell Brown here. I may not agree with him in a lot of things but he's been a good local MP and it's vitally importart that we deny the Conservatives victory here. Even so,I have a distaste for the Labour party,and I hope I never have to vote for negative reasons again,especially as I feel Nick Clegg has fought a good,clean and honest campaign. I just hope that Labour voters in Lib Dem/Tory marginals can also see why its important to vote with your head this time,not your heart.
Posted by Harry Barnes (Dronfield)
on 02 May 2010, 1:15:24 PM
We need the first of the statements which Danny refers to at 10 pm on Thursday.
Posted by Dugsie (Yorks)
on 02 May 2010, 12:01:32 PM
I think that danny is correct in his analysis.
Posted by frances 
on 02 May 2010, 9:52:21 AM
The LibDems aren't a left party and I will never join them.

But let's be fair.

They opposed the Iraq war.
They opposed top up fees.
They fought the Welfare Reform Bills (they propose a much fairer Partial Capability Benefit which is the only hope for the really sick)

All the above were passed with Tory/NewLabour collusion.

So if you feel like moving to a real PR system - then the LibDems aren't a bad choice for a protest vote against Gordon going on and on and on and on and on. He should have been voted out internally in the party but he wasn't. So it has to happen now.

After all he's been sticking like a limpet. What ever would he be like if he actually won an election. He'd be there for ever and ever and ever and so would his one man band NewLabour template.
Posted by danny (manchester)
on 02 May 2010, 9:41:21 AM
Let's be clear that the distinctive aspect of the labour party consists in two interrelated characteristics: that it historically spoke for working people and that a tendency existed within which was socialist. The idea that
capitalism cannot - at the end of the day - be reconciled with the interests of working people and that change should be brought about by peaceful and democratic means. Democratic socialists should be generous, non-sectarian and open minded. Many of us were fooled into believing that Compass stood in this tradition. But it doesn't. The Compass project is to fuse non-socialist, liberal and other centrist non-tory political forces. This is an honourable project which they share with many media commentators. But it is not a democratic socialist project. People who share this perspective must now reluctantly leave Compass and we must form a new body of ideas and a new organisation. A large number of leading Labour party members are preparing to leave Compass, including many Labour candidates. There will be statements about this in due course. Soon there will be an announcement of a new organisation. Compass - you blew it for all socialists who believed in you.
Posted by Lee (Highlands)
on 02 May 2010, 6:01:02 AM
Bill Raymond (Manchester)
Lee - so what crime was Gramsci guilty of?
******************************************************
Being read by individuals incapable of understanding what he is saying
Posted by Lee (Highlands)
on 02 May 2010, 5:46:53 AM
I want to know whether SG returned to the city of her fame and repute to strip naked for art. If so, I do believe she is required to post pictures here ! By the way, you are anything but a fool in your voting intentions, which are highly rational and full of integrity. Anyone who votes in the hope of keeping the Brown regime alive is a fool and is wasting a vote.
Posted by Salfordgal (Marginalville)
on 02 May 2010, 12:32:35 AM
"Hang on. The Lib Dems are progressive?"

Yeah, yeah. Whatever.... But progressive enough not to bail out the players in a shadow banking system composed of compulsive gamblers incapable of recognizing, let alone computing, systemic risk and thereby saddling the rest of us with that insane debt generated by the very failings of Brown's neo-loony policy of financial de-regulation and encouraging the ultra-loony free-for-all which made London the financial capital where all the activities which weren't allowed under their own countries' laws could be performed perfectly illegally and without any form of effective supervision in this country.

I'm just waiting to hear the wails and moans of the Telegraph, Mail and Times when the Yanks are forced under the pressure of the midterm elections to start extradition proceedings against the very same British bankers that new Labour has gone the final mile to protect from their crimes. Thank God for the American electoral cycle. Now that's progressive. And if that doesn't jog the judicial conscience, and spurs their efforts, nothing will.
Posted by Gerry Lynch (Leeds)
on 01 May 2010, 9:36:53 PM
I can't believe that Compass has fallen for the progressive left fallacy. Herein Leeds where the LDs keep Labour out of office by their collusion with the Tories on a Tory agenda, we know like many other towns and cities that the LDs will grab power wherever it offers.

Leeds Labour has supported the bin men in a strike occasioned by the council's wilful distortion of the Equal Pay Act to reduce wages and the LDs have enthusiastically led this manouevre.

I will now cancel my membership of Compass and leave you to your self-inflicted marginalisation.

Gerry Lynch
Posted by Pete (Sussex)
on 01 May 2010, 8:22:58 PM
Hang on. The Lib Dems are progressive?

"Savage cuts".

'I love Thatcher'.

Cutting benefits and tax credits and eroding further the univeral principle.

Flip-flopping on their 'mansion tax' plan and increasing the threshold to appease the rich.

"Misleading" (IFS) bombast about 'fair' taxes that benefit those on middle-incomes far more than those on low ones.

Delaying Winter Fuel Payments.

Part-privatisation of the Royal Mail.

Scrapping the target of 50% of young people going to university.

Scrapping or at least taking money from the Personal Care At Home Act (care for the elderly).

Cutting 150 MPs.

They'll "make it easier" to convict people in court by allowing the use of "intercept evidence".

and this - for them - comes under "Creating a freeer society"

Their manifesto says they will take steps to ensure "that the BBC does not undermine the viability of other media providers" - did anyone say 'Murdoch'?

Clegg was even in the Tory club at university. (Wouldn't be such a problem if he didn't vehemently deny it when we know it's true)

The bloody 'Orange Book' that advocates bringing the market into every aspect of society including healthcare provision authored by Clegg, Cable, Huhne, Laws and others on the Lib Dem frontbench.

And that to that raft of other policies that are simply daft or have already been implemented by others. The manifesto includes a bunch of nice looking policies that can only be implemented "when resources allow", i.e. not in the the life of the next parliament (which this manifesto is meant to be for) because we'll be concentrating on cutting the debt. The daft inclue that unworkable regional immigration policy - will they rebuild Hadrian's Wall?

Then there are also a mass of vague beauties such as this "Regulate the parking system to remove unfairness" (that's not in the executive summary or anything - it's from the main body).

Yes, of course many of the Lib Dems are good people, but let's not jump to conclusions. There are the neolibs and then the social democrats. What would be best is to split the two and have them go off to their real homes.

1 to 50 of 72

 

Leave a comment

About you










Your comment

Please do not use HTML tags in your comment as they will be displayed as normal text.

We take no responsibility for the content of comments posted on this website, which represent the views of their authors alone.

Please enter the two words in the image below. This is an anti-spam measure designed to prove that you are a human, not a computer.