Yes Michelle I completely agree with your point about "having a more collectively focused and unified activist movement focusing and collaborating on an agenda of campaigns, creating a 'multiplier' effect..."
because the present 'traditional' politcal responses is almost entirely sterile these days. (Hence the lack of popular support or even interest).

The two apparoaches don't have to be mutually excusive - as you point out there is the possibility that 'representative' parties might even be rejuvenated by the process.

If MPs or Party members have something genunine to contribute the all well and good - but they can't be left to their own devices - or the UK political scene will continue to decay. Which will help no one but those who really oppose having a meaningful democracy.

The 'task' is indeed as you say: for as many 'organisations'...'to come together and to consider how and under what conditions this might be possible and if so, how to make it happen...'

Frances, campaigning about issues is definetly very important. However, having a more collectively focused and unified activist movement focusing and collaborating on an agenda of campaigns, creating a 'multiplier' effect by 'tuning in voices' with a platform, has to be a way to achieve a greater impact, and also possibly, create opportunities for new blood into politics and new breed of politicians from its ranks... Who knows...
So Jon, yes, absolutely... and the task at hand therefore, for all these organisations is to come together and to consider how and under what conditions this might be possible and if so, how to make it happen.. (???) Isn't it?

For me it's very simple. I happened to get involved with mental health issues and discovered that the Welfare Reforms were coming in driven by ideological zeal for neo con economic thinking about freeing up labour markets. So I learned that NewLabour were following neo con economics and that they were bringing in laws that completely determine and control the lives of seriously sick people without any interest, care, concern or knowledge about them. They haven't even thought of building in protection for the most vulnerable people. They are not fit to be in power if they don't understand that they have a duty of care to the most vulnerable.

So you can build political alliances. But a quicker way is to campaign on this issue bacause it identifies and unites the good guys. Both politically and in terms of humanity.

Michelle - thanks for your post which raises the problems we face - and suggests how we try to solve them. Knowing what is against us can only inform us and help provide ways of reacing to them.

'Is there the possibility for a unifying force (almost a federation, or collective) in the activist world, that could create a critical mass, agree to integrate the main thrust of their respective actions into an collective agenda, that would bring them together into a critical mass to work on gaining wide public attention?? '

I certainly hope so because we need something like a 'federation' to kick start a concerted response to the inhumane policies being imposed on so many people. We have got to start somewhere!

It is so easy to become isolated from each other - which only helps the callous politicians and lobbysists who have benefited (in monetary terms) from the breaking down of so much of our communities.

Our only strength is through our numbers and collective action. As you point out, the lack of awareness of others who are in similar situation, only helps those against us - a modern version of Caesar's 'divide and rule' strategy.

At the moment you're right to worry about the lack of information but life isn't static and I believe that there has been a subtle shift in trust and perceptions of the 'authorities' (in every sense) which could lead to the
'build up of a critical mass for change' which we so badly need.

And anything we do learn - can soon be disseminated to many other people - both here on the internet and on other 'public' spaces - to the benefit of us all.

Frances and Jon, thank you for your replies. I appreciate. I also appreciate the list of organisations provided by Jon (!), and I will have a good search on each and everyone of them. I am pretty proactive and the fact that I have never seen the name of some of these organisations means that many other people like me will not know of their existence. So.. Is there the possibility for a unifying force (almost a federation, or collective) in the activist world, that could create a critical mass, agree to integrate the main thrust of their respective actions into an collective agenda, that would bring them together into a critical mass to work on gaining wide public attention?? Am I totally ignorant of what goes on? ... While each and everyone of them I am sure are dedicated and working hard, the lack of real public presence (I feel) means that many people like me probably, and those going about their daily lives.. have never heard of some of them or what they do! I had come across an aricle that mentioned the creation of the Manchester Unemployed Workers' Union... ask around you.. most people probably don't know even that unemployed people can be part of a union or what benefits would be derived for creating or joining one... It remains a fragmented presence.... I can already see from the names how the grassroots might find it difficult to be pragmatic and create a more unified activist force which is so badly needed....Or ??? But without it there is no build up of a critical mass for change...
Thank you both.

Michelle

As a mamber of Carer Watch I would also add that the following groups are waging a campaign called 'Plotting and scheming for Welfare not Workfare.':

South Manchester Community Union, London Anarcha-Feminist Kolektiv, London Coalition Against Poverty, Feminist Action, Defend Welfare Newcastle, Manchester Unemployed Workers Union, Cambridge Unemployed Workers' Union, PCS, Hackney Unemployed Workers, Single Mothers' Self Defence, Winvisible, Alliance for Workers' Liberty, Disabled People's Direct Action Network, Southwark Mind, Women's Office Manchester Student Union, Riveters feminist group in Manchester, Feminist Fightback, Industrial Workers of the World, No Borders, Stop Deportations, Anarchist Federation, Communist Students, Salford Unemployed Workers' Union

Not surprisingly these groups have little faith in political parties because of their failures. Whereas I fully support Frances' suggestion I don't think we can rely on it - we need alternatives - even just in case. We need grassroot activism to counter the failures of vain and self serving and opportunist politicians.

(There is a thread on the Red Pepper website in the general discussion section for further details if you're interested).

Hi Michelle - wish I could tell you how to get more heat but sadly I don't know. However you aren't alone. Join the no-to-welfare-abolition google group who are fighting the welfare reforms right across the country.

There's a general election coming perhaps as soon as March. Join welfarewatch and/or carerwatch. We intend to encourage people to e-mail all the prospective candidates in their constituency and ask them what they intend to do if elected about the terrible situation now facing claimants. One of our main focusses is protecting severely sick and mentally ill people - the fact that we have to do this says it all.

No point voting for a Tory or a Newlabour clone. We don't want Labour MPs who let us down. The progressive consensus is made up of LibDems, Greens and Labour MPS from the LRC or Compass. But check up with them that they believe in saving the welfare state before you vote for them. We'll be launching this in January so make sure you are joined up by then.

I looked through the posts and saw Frances reporting on the mum jumping to her death after having her benefits cut... This 'went right through me'. The gesture of despair, no being heard, not having a voice or choices, being trapped.... making a statement. This woman has made a statement and respect to all those like her who are struggling to the point that they will consider ending their lives is 'the bottom line' for me. I have not been far from it myself, it has crossed my mind. Sorry about the Chrismas party... Unemployed for 2 years (and I worked hard to try to retrn to work) I am sitting at my computer, wrapped in sleeping bag because I am too cold and I cannot afford to use the central heating in my house... on benefits. People are campaigning for the environment, reducing CO2 emissions.. those of us who cannot afford heat are certainly moving on this earth with a 'light carbon footprint'. It seems that on the whole, 'public opinion' is more prepared to campaign for the environment than we are for people. It is safer isn't it? I have zero tolerance for even ONE life being lost as a result of 'social despair'..ZERO... and yet I sit here and I feel powerless. My consistent efforts to engage with local partnerships, not even acknowledged when I offered to volunteer for Shelter in London (!!) although I am descending into poverty myself... but we are in a time where even these outfits are run by the middle-class who are concerned about disadvantaged people in society.... but while philanthropy may take off the edge of some of the poverty, it does not empower... and quite honestly, it is RIGHTS that people need and deserve, not charity.. it is RIGHTS and a VOICE for their inflicted pains and despair in the front of NO OPPORTUNITIES amd their criminalisation by the welfare system.....
I genuinely feel for that mother, I do, and the many like her that thankfully are still alive and have not yet got to that extreme point.... And I am sick and tired with politicians and intellectuals who are not just basically cutting to the chase and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. This is not tolerable. I wish I knew and I could find a way to actually make a difference even to effectively fight for what I believe has to change.. because there is no time to lose in the next debate.. action needs to happen now ... but all I find is the eternal debates.. Lobbying MPs, writing to Ministers is a waste of time. I have done plenty of that. I receive another 'beside the point' answer this morning. It is a total waste of time.. and as I said when it comes to the Third Sector, it has become another 'corporate' environment, where you need to have a particular career track record, the appropriate employment history... for them ultimately to come and 'help people like me'??? Sorry folks..... I am angry today and not apologetic for it.

My core support? I don't wear a support. My back is not good, but it is not that bad yet.

As for the vote, i wonder if the pros were complacent at the antis determination to defeat the idea?

I never bothered to pay attention to any of the ideas, let alone vote for them. Perhaps many were like me.

I think, when people are advised as to how FPTP works and what PR can do, even if it is over time, they are brought round.

'Campaigning for PR is no bad thing, it just needs to be integral to forming a much wider social democratic movement.'

Maybe from your honest and open perspective but I bet you haven't just had your core support reject your central aim of having the referendum next election.

I know there are complex issues involved.. but really..

on your deluded heart Brown, on your deluded heart.

Don't want to put a dampner of the party but if you want to see the future as you toast in the NewYear

On line - today's Daily Mail
Can't out the link


Welcome to UK 2009

Pregnant mother leaps to her death with five-month-old son in her arms after losing benefits

Don't want to put a damper on the party but if you wnat to see the future as you toast in the NewYear try today's on line Daily Mail

Welcome to UK 2009

Pregnant mother leaps to her death with five-month-old son in her arms after losing benefits


dailymail.co.uk/news/a...nefits-stopped.html#ixzz0YkTzKZIF

you need 3w on the front

Campaigning for PR is no bad thing, it just needs to be integral to forming a much wider social democratic movement.

Anyone who does got to the Christmas Party should ask Neal Lawson why he is still campaigning for the proposed referendum on PR on the same day as the next election (see Comment is Free on Guardian Online) despite that fact that members rejected the proposal as recently as last month at a General meeting.

Does this mean that Neal Lawson only listens when it suits him and that he holds his own membership in contempt? Can this man be trusted to lecture the Labour Party (or anyone else) on internal democracy. Seems that a New Labour 'mindset' is a very difficult position to give up.

I was just asking.
The people we elect look like humans like us. They say they understand us. They say they understand our needs. They are supposed to be bright and with a capacity to learn from past mistakes.
The evidence of what is wrong action is so big and what is right action so compelling, one wonders what happens to politicians, even from the so called Left, that makes them into odd creatures as soon as they get power.

A secret coven is of course a silly almarmist idea, but I use it to illustrate wider points. We do know, anyway, that unlected non-citizens of this country can have huge impact which is exercised via one back channel or another: And that is such as Murdoch and high financiers.

If you thought this reference was tending to the anti-semitic, you jumped too soon. I am afraid not, you cannot excitedly get into your very good boy anti- anti-semite suit for this one.

Sane: 'Who comprise the secret coven who actually rule us?'

Is it the Learned Elders of Zion, the Bavarian Illuminati, shape changing alien lizards, the Queen of England and the Medellin Cartel?

Please enlighten us...

Frances Season to be jolly £10 christmas bonus for pensioners and sick.

It has been announced today that over 5000 thousand bankers will receive at least a million pound bonus £1000000 bonus this Christmas.

"The bankers will say they earned it, but they know they could hardly lose. Even the banks that did not take tax payers money know they are covered by government to cover losses as they freely gamble the printed money.

Many of the elite of this country will also be feathering their nests at the moment with huge payments in some way or another. most of it earned off the backs of others, though they will claim they did it all themselves.

Of course if you are low paid, a carer, unemployed you get nothing extra. The uenemployed may get a letter from DWP to put them on WORKFARE as a late Christmas present from government."

How did politicians turn so inept and spineless?

Who comprise the secret coven who actually rule us?

Is it possible for me to change status from pensioner to banker before Christmas ? Where do I apply ?

Dear Sir

Frances Season to be jolly £10 christmas bonus for pensioners and sick.

It has been announced today that over 5000 thousand bankers will receive at least a million pound bonus £1000000 bonus this Christmas.

The bankers will say they earned it, but they know they could hardly lose. Even the banks that did not take tax payers money know they are covered by government to cover losses as they freely gamble the printed money.

Many of the elite of this country will also be feathering their nests at the moment with huge payments in some way or another. most of it earned off the backs of others, though they will claim they did it all themselves.

Of course if you are low paid, a carer, unemployed you get nothing extra. The uenemployed may get a letter from DWP to put them on WORKFARE as a late Christmas present from government.

Paul

SG~utter tragedy\high farce\complete stupidity=Edspledge.
The sorcerer's apprentice has graduated cum laude.

Dugsie (Yorks)
on 02 December 2009, 2:15:32 PM
Never mind the Christmas Party. Where's the debate on current developments in the war in Afghanistan? A strange order of priorities prevails here.
*************************************************

I agree. There should be much more focus on both Afghanistan and the Chilcot inquiry. Seasonal cheer and best wishes to all.

This is the season to be jolly. Let's not be grudging. Try and be truly giving and generous just like the DWP. Think how cheering it must be if you are alone, and sick, and cold and living on next to no money to have a festive letter like this drop through your door to let you know that somebody cares.


"Dear Mr XXXXXX
"ABOUT YOUR PAYMENT

"We will pay £10.00 into your account.
"This is your Christmas Bonus for 2009.
"We will pay the money into the account that you have told us about by 08-12-2009.

"If you do not receive your payment by the expected date please contact us on the number at the top of this letter.

"Changes you must tell us about

"About your Christmas Bonus

"You can only get one Christmas Bonus for each year even if you are getting more than one benefit or allowance.

"You must let us know if you have already had the Christmas Bonus for this year. You must tell us about

* which benefit or allowance your other Christmas Bonus payment came
with and
* which office paid it to you

"If this is the only Christmas Bonus you have received, and you then get another payment for Christmas Bonus you must get in touch with your local Social Security office. The address is in the phone book under Social Security...."

"Where's the debate on current developments in the war in Afghanistan? A strange order of priorities prevails here."

I think someone at Compass is trying to make a very subtle point about policy-making by triangulation and the very real difficulty of establishing the precise dividing lines between utter tragedy, high farce and complete stupidity. The Supreme Cheese, in the Greatness of His Wisdom, seems to have succeeded in finding the exact point of intersection. Clever, inn'e?

Before I go anywhere near the misletoe I want to know what precisely is being celebrated. A Labour 'victory'.? I think we should be told

Never mind the Christmas Party. Where's the debate on current developments in the war in Afghanistan? A strange order of priorities prevails here.

Lewis, Dugsie, Lynch and Jon: Not going to be swinging your pants at the Compass Christmas party?

I am sure Frances will be up for a kiss under the mistletoe.

Were I to attend, I would try to do something quite complicated, like being Hillary Benn trying his damnedest not to look like a duchess. O hell, I think I will just go in my Dolly Parton outfit. Its always worked in the past ! Sane could try dressing as someone normal.

A Mince Pie and Christmas Cheer, for anyone who arrives decked out as a Duchess.