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Musab Younis asks Gavin Hayes: can Labour be saved?

Wednesday, October 29 2008

empty_fuel_car7_smallA brief flitter of a long-lost independence surfaced in the ranks of Labour MPs this summer when over 120 of them signed up to a proposal for a windfall tax on energy companies, led by the think tank and pressure group Compass.

"The government could raise around six billion pounds to help people in fuel poverty this winter, but also invest the big bulk of that money into a mass national programme of home insulation," Gavin Hayes, General Secretary of Compass, tells me enthusiastically. "Windfall tax has the support of sixty-seven percent of the population." A progressive idea indeed, and one with huge popular and parliamentary support. Gordon Brown naturally ruled it out a few days later, after meeting with energy company executives.

But the temporary stirring in the midst of Labour by support for a progressive windfall tax was interesting even for those who are too cynical to ever find anything interesting about Westminster politics. This had a different air to the usual stench of career politics. For the first time in years, it almost felt like the Labour benches in the Commons seat real, compassionate people - those who might care about the many who couldn't afford to pay their huge, and rising, bills. And it started here, in the tiny Compass office in Vauxhall, where the corridors of the shared building sometimes slope dramatically downwards, and an exposed iron lift shaft rises obtrusively through the stairwell.

The building is a huge nineteenth century Royal Doulton relic, which now houses a multiplicity of local businesses. The gaudy entrance has undergone an uneasy modernisation; blue neon is recessed into the ceiling, and a surly security guard insists I wait in a velvet sitting area. We are meant to have our interview in a small communal room, shared amongst the buildings tenants, but a woman is stretched out across the seats sleeping. Her sonorous presence gives it the look of an airport waiting room. "Hmm," says Gavin, looking slightly put out. "That's not very considerate." Instead, we head through winding corridors to the Compass office itself - a small and bright room, with a view of the Thames, crammed with a few desks, newspaper cuttings on the walls, and one staff member typing away. As we talk, she often answers the phone, at which point we compete to be heard.

Yet this small office - itself, born of a single desk at the wealthier think tank Demos - is deceptive. Since its foundation in 2003, one could almost say that Compass has been the only serious countervailing force to Labour's inexorable swing to the right. Sure, others have talked and complained. But with influential backing, Compass has put out nineteen publications, organised high-profile conferences, and enjoyed a steady stream of press coverage - all based on the idea that, as Gavin tells me: "We want to create a more equal society, and a more democratic society." There's more, too; phrases which sound terribly radical this close to Westminster. "I think Gordon Brown needs to put a stop to this ‘marketisation'," for one, and: "You need greater redistribution - you can't just leave it to the market", for another. The Compass ‘Programme for Renewal' (titled ‘The Good Society') also states in no uncertain terms that whilst "New Labour has achieved important reductions in poverty, and has managed to implement a number of socially liberal measures", it "has never made a serious challenge to neo-liberalism by seeking active political support for an alternative, democratic - and hegemonic - vision of the good society, because it has only ever wanted to ‘modernise'." Thus, "unaccountable and unacceptable concentrations of wealth and power have therefore not only remained untouched, but have been encouraged."

The economic crisis is an opportunity, says Gavin, to build a new progressive economic consensus. "It is now profoundly clear that all the answers to the problems in the world today demand collective state intervention," he says, "be it the massive failure of the banking system we are witnessing before our very eyes or climate change." Echoing what some have been saying for decades - and what many have realised only recently - he tells me that "all of these problems have been magnified as a result of unregulated financial markets, fuelled by the sorts of obscene bonuses paid in the city. Of course, the real people who pay the price for the actions of reckless and thoughtless bankers are the every day person on the street - through higher mortgage rates, living costs and job losses. It is clear that neither New Labour nor the New Conservatives have the narrative or the answers to any of these problems." It's almost like Labour - with substance. Dare we even say ‘Old Labour'?

"We're not affiliated to the Labour Party," Gavin insists. "We are a progressive organisation which works with people on the centre-left. Yes, we try and influence the Labour Party, because they are the only party in this country that subscribes - in its constitution at least - to democratic socialism. But that doesn't mean we can't work with other people outside of the Labour Party."

The point is not that Compass occasionally thinks or says ‘progressive' things. That wouldn't set it far apart from a blog, much less a think tank. It's that Compass, for a fleeting moment at least, started to look like it could actually exert some influence. "We always bill ourselves as more pressure group than think tank," explains Gavin. "Simply because there's a lot of ideas out there." He pays tribute to the forward-thinking of other think tanks, like Demos. "But what was lacking, and where Compass plays its role, is as a pressure group - an organisation to actually push forward some of these policy ideas and campaign for them."

For many, the idea that there is any point in lobbying the Labour Party, and trying to influence its members, seems strange. For one thing, the party now looks remarkably out of touch, even with its own members. There is a clear and shrinking group of people with influence on policy. Many members of this tiny elite have never been elected, and are brought on as ‘advisors' in an American-style staffing system. Even the elected stand to benefit monetarily from the policies they enact, through a revolving door system that guarantees them corporate jobs with six-figure salaries once they are removed from public office. For another thing, the democratic deficit of the political system has become so obvious that it can seem absurd to expect Labour - even if it were somehow to democratise from within - to win another election. We have now witnessed the spectacle of the Conservative party branding itself as the party of social conscience. "It's fair to say that the right have taken the language of the left," Gavin tells me. "They've taken the progressive language. But I don't think they have the policies that can deliver a fairer society. They're still chained to market mechanisms and market policies to deliver what they want."

So they haven't got the policies that can deliver their rhetoric. But what does it matter? Their policies are the same as Labour's anyway. There exists practically zero choice for the electorate in issues that count - like stopping the spread of privatisation, to take a key example. "It depends whether or not Gordon Brown is willing to stand up and say that these Blairite pro-market reforms are not the right direction for the Labour government to be pursuing," says Gavin. And this, it seems, is where Compass differs from the rest of the critics. They genuinely believe in a Labour that most people have forgotten about. Gavin insists that there's an internal debate in the party about its future direction, aside from the bickering over leadership. With privatisation, Gavin tells me, Compass has put forward alternatives like co-production, which are based on a vision of modernisation without the need to resort to damaging market forces. Labour could well adopt such ideas. In what looks like its dying years, it seems there are those who believe Labour could radically redeem itself.

It can sound surprising, in the context of the country's resigned acceptance of Cameron as the inevitable PM-in waiting, to hear Gavin talk about influencing Gordon Brown. He remembers the muted hopefulness at Blair's resignation - "When Gordon Brown first took over as Prime Minister, there was talk about more democracy at a local level. There was talk of ensuring the House of Lords is properly democratised, and there were positive policies that were put forward." So what happened? "It is possible to win support within government for mainstream left-of-centre polices," insists Gavin. "But it does require a boldness on the part of the Prime Minister to push these policies forward. So the job of Compass is to try to create the space for the debate to take place, and to try and push forward some of these arguments and change the terms of the debate, and try and get some of these policies enacted."

The idea of enacting real change by asking Gordon Brown to be bold could be labelled hopeless, but some might even see it as counterproductive. Many on the left have an issue with the ‘third sector' - think tanks, and pressure groups, because they see them as stifling real working-class organisation. They fill the space, it is said, which should be taken up by unions and grassroots organisations. An article on ‘Socialist Unity' asks where Compass is going, and glumly concludes: "The gyrations of the leading Compass MPs suggests that grubby compromise and caving-in to the authoritarian guardians of the corporate interest of New Labour will be the result." One person even comments: "Compass is merely the left cheek on the arse of New Labour."

Does Gavin think Compass is a counterrevolutionary force? "I think what you're talking about is probably, sort of ‘hard left' elements," he says. "The fantastic thing about Compass, and all the work we do - whether it was our big national conference that we held in June on equality, or whether it was the campaign that we've just been running on the windfall tax, or on Trident, when we opposed the government on Trident - we put together progressive coalitions of a whole range of organisations. So that includes trade unions, it includes MPs, it includes NGOs like Friends of the Earth, or Liberty, broad coalitions of different organisations, different interest groups, poverty groups, and so on. Actually for us, having all those groups and bringing them all under the one umbrella is a huge strength." I'm intrigued. Does that mean, ideologically, he's opposed to revolution? "I've always believed in the democratic process," he tells me diplomatically. Does that include democratic control over economic resources? Gavin thinks for a minute. "I think there's certainly a case in some instances for certain sections of society to be publicly owned and within the public realm. There's certainly a strong case for a strong public realm to counteract the market." He cites the example of the railways, which "clearly should be nationalised". And "there are perhaps other sectors as well, where we could look to ensure they're in the public realm, and not in the private sector."

Gavin, like many of today's younger idealists, was politicised during the Thatcher years. "My parents were quite political," he tells me. They hated the Thatcher government - "not least because Margaret Thatcher imposed the poll tax, and at the time my parents, from working class backgrounds, couldn't really afford the poll tax." The memory clearly lingers. "I do remember the bailiffs knocking on our door because my parents hadn't paid the poll tax. I guess that's what made me political - it was through all those awful things that happened in the 1980s, the riots and everything else." He joined the Labour Party at 16, studied politics at college, and went to university. "When I left university I got a job working for a left-of-centre think tank," he says. "And I've worked in politics ever since."

You could say that Compass's attempts to create a genuine debate in an organisation like the Labour Party are utterly futile. You might argue that it is only when Labour has accepted electoral defeat that it allows itself even to think about principled, democratic socialism. In government, you could argue, the party is just as heavingly corrupt as the Chancery Court in Dickens's Bleak House; full of the self-obsessed fawning after power; full of career politicians making a mockery out of the idea ‘representative'. You might even wonder why Compass operates. But if you do, Gavin has a simple answer, and it has an elegance to it that suggests he is quite serious. "Because ideas on their own aren't enough," he says. "You need to organise for them."

Musab Younis is a journalist for Ceasfire

Ceasefire is an independent, reader-sustained, non-profit magazine concerned with producing high-quality journalism, review and analysis on politics and culture. You can find out more at: www.ceasefiremagazine.co.uk

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Comments

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1 to 29 of 29
Posted by frances (london)
on 02 November 2008, 2:28:42 PM
I suppose we cant all be horny handed sons of toil like Marx and Engels and Beatrice Webb.

Nothing really changes. You can visit Westminster and Red Lion Square for meetings of the Fabian Society and Compass and get back on a train. You probably wont ever go out East to Walthamstow and Barking and further in to Essex to the new towns but that's all London too.

The London Labour Party has a strong intellectual strand and a very strong working class strand just as I have witnessed in Newcastle and Manchester. If you don't want to travel in to the Eastern badlands you can find large areas of social housing nestling next to gentrified chic in most areas of London.

Polly Toynbee goes in to the Clapham Park estate to research the dispossessed and its only a stones throw from her smart terrace.

There's life in London outside the Westminster village as red in tooth and claw as anywhere else.


Posted by Paul McLean (Leeds)
on 02 November 2008, 1:32:53 PM
A generation ago Bernard Crick in discussing the historical growth of the Labour Party and the development of its culture and policies was gently scathing about London. To paraphrase he offered that the appeal of Labour outside of the capital was very much that of provincial, working class respectability. This, counterpoised against London ‘metropolitan chic.’ Interestingly this thesis has something of its embodiment in the support for his friend and protégé, David Blunkett.

Yesterday’s Guardian contains a modern Labour Right discussion of Labour culture and policy: Neal Lawson’s ‘unpicking new Labour. Ironically the contemporary equivalent of ‘metropolitan chic’ is part of the synthesis of social and political networking upon which the elitist good society construct is based. Whilst 19th-20th century Labour Party theory and policy was dependent upon a purpose and active working class as agents of reformist socialist change, their 21st century equivalent are nowhere to be seen in ‘Unpicking New Labour.’ This equivalent is the ‘hardworking families.’ Whether or not the Labour Right call themselves ‘new labour’ (or ‘progressives’ for that matter,) working class political consciousness is relegated to the secondary and dependent market driven role of ‘hardworking families.’ This role remains resolutely ‘unpicked.’

For whom then is Labour to be saved? A pertinent question given that ‘Unpicking New Labour’ is predicated upon rewriting Labour history. The impression is contrived that the Labour Right were not so much politically conscious and able actors, but were overtaken by forces and events of which they, (and certainly not the working class majority,) were the reluctant victims. As to the plotting etc, Lawson strikes a disingenuous, ‘innocent abroad,’ tone of which he should be ashamed; but unsurprisingly is not. Rhetorically it is indeed arguable that, ‘The best (Labour,) felt it could hope to do to win and govern again was to humanise free markets and invest in public services, especially education, to try and help people survive the pressure of globally competitive markets.’ But the essential intellectual dishonesty of this statement, is that it was the ONLY thing a Labour neo-liberal Government was ever going to do. And in any event whatever ‘humanise’ means, Labour has not ‘humanised’, capital and the markets. The Project and its deliberate and constant shift to the Right was not the regrettable aberration of what we may expect will become a gathering and oft repeated myth. Humanised or not, markets and the pursuit of profit was and remains central to the policies of Blair, Brown and their supporters.

More investment has gone into Education and the NHS. More has gone into other public services. But this has been as part of the distinctively Thatcherite policy of privatisation. One notable comparison of Tory Gvt with ‘new labour’ Gvt is that the Tories were always ambiguous about force feeding sectors of the economy with money as the necessary precursor to privatisation: Labour neo-liberals resisted such uncertainty. —Not least because ‘new labour’ deliberately and assiduously pushed the Tories to the Right and appropriated their ground and policies. In specific policy areas, ‘new labour’ continues to outflank the Tories from the Right. One of these is the area of Civil Rights; not least 42 Day Detention without Charge. This outrage to liberal middle-class individualistic sensibilities is the only significant area in which ‘new labour, their own Gvt, has in practice outraged neo-liberals. - The reformist ones anyway.
Posted by frances (london)
on 02 November 2008, 10:34:21 AM
I was born in the East End of London. All four of my grandparents were born in Hackney. Engels called the East End of London the largest working class ghetto in the world. At that time London was the centre of the dominant global empire and the East End existed along side the City and great wealth. Extreme dichotomy in wealth is not new to London.

The Labour Party has roots all round the UK but it certainly has a very strong tradition from its beginning in London. Why are we even debating this.

More recently the London Labour Party members have shown independence and defied Newlabour and elected Ken anyway.
Posted by Salfordgal (London)
on 02 November 2008, 12:33:33 AM
"Politique - got to take issue with that - Greater London not representative of Labour's values? What about the GLC? What about Ken Livingstone's two terms as Mayor? He's left London with a Social Democratic legacy that Boris has not (and probably cannot) dismantle."

Social democratic legacy? Possibly. A legacy of ethnic client groups? Certainly. Spontaneously combusting bendy buses after promising not to eliminate the Routemaster? Absolutely. A Tory Mayor and the best possible jumping off point for a successful Tory English general election campaign? Definitely.
Posted by firemonkey (Southend on sea)
on 02 November 2008, 12:24:34 AM
"Labour values" that include bullying and terrorising hiv sufferers like my brother and mentally ill people like myself whilst wasting billions on Iraq and turning a blind eye to obscene corporate excesses.

"Labour values" that will see many mentally and physically disabled people, who are not living in the lap of luxury by any means anyway, having their benefits slashed .

"Labour values" that include a concerted erosion of civil liberties .


Thanks-but NO THANKS.
Posted by Robert (Swansea)
on 01 November 2008, 8:54:28 PM
Your joking of course another five years of Brown and new labour for god sake we have had enough.
Posted by Jonathon Hawkes (Fleet)
on 01 November 2008, 8:39:59 PM
Politique - got to take issue with that - Greater London not representative of Labour's values? What about the GLC? What about Ken Livingstone's two terms as Mayor? He's left London with a Social Democratic legacy that Boris has not (and probably cannot) dismantle. And I might also mention Glenda Jackson, Frank Dobson, Jon Cruddas and Jerermy Corbyn as London MPs true to Labour Party core values.

Isn't it the truth that Labour values have a home all over Britain? - there is no one part of the country that has a monopoly over 'Labour Values' - and if we are to win a fourth term, we need to engage the whole country - not simply the supposed heartlands.
Posted by Dugsie (North Yorkshire)
on 01 November 2008, 3:40:19 PM
Why are Compass so obsessed with members of the government. If being centre-left means anything at all it surely means being opposed to New Labour. Why constantly provide them with a platform, instead of providing a platform to their Labour critics ?
Posted by Paul McLean (Leeds)
on 01 November 2008, 3:10:29 PM
The Rutherford- Cruddas piece is encouraging, as Frances suggests. But typically of course it is in the spirit of members of the provenly right-wing elite who control the Labour Party and the cross party consensus, having second thoughts. —Second thoughts brought about by the economic and social failures of the essentially Thatcherite settlement they have both supported and benefited from.

Their brief analysis is fine so far as it goes. We do need a democratic and accountable state otherwise the specific policies suggested and the development of a socialist Green agenda will not be possible. Politics in the last15 years or so have been the preserve of inward, self-referential groups of networks and individuals. In their different ways Rutherford and Cruddas exemplify the privileged, the stakeholder democrats who have much more in common with the Tories and with ‘new labour;’ than they have with reformist socialism; and certainly than they have with the millions of ordinary Labour voters who are carrying the burden of the economic crisis. These same ordinary people deserve more than ‘the concern on our own terms’ implicit in the Rutherford- Cruddas piece.

If they are sincere in what they propose, (rather than just concerned that Tory elites will take over from where ‘new labour’ leaves off,) let us see Rutherford and Cruddas looking deliberately to the Centre and Left for a change. There is nothing remotely progressive in simply talking to Harriet Harmon and a bit more elite networking.

Posted by frances (london)
on 01 November 2008, 11:26:04 AM
For those of you who are complaining about ruminative discourse and only want to read dart to the heart - nail on the head commentary - try the article in today's Guardian by Jon Cruddas and Jonathan Rutherford. It says it all.

I actually felt encouraged reading the morning paper.
Posted by Politique (Doncaster)
on 01 November 2008, 11:15:10 AM
Jonathan, One person's inexperience in life can lead an individual into being another person's lapdog. Whilst most of the so called Compass elite are basking in the company London's not so elite and influential, any aims and objectives will never be fully because real Labour values are in the Northlands not Greater London. That is why Compass will always be a voice that nobody really listens to outside Memorial Hall. Thats the truth. Gavin, what experience have you got outside London, in life and what have you acheived. Tony Blair was once described as a poodle of George Bush.
Posted by Lewis Parry (Elx)
on 31 October 2008, 1:58:16 PM
Jonathon sorry I cannot be with you and Dame Helena at the conference but fraternally suggest you turn your fire on the enemy
rather than fragging your own elite forces.
Posted by Salfordgal (London)
on 30 October 2008, 9:47:08 PM
Hmmm..., Jonathon. Cynic..., let's see: "one of a sect of Greek philosophers, 4th century b.c., who advocated the doctrines that virtue is the only good, that the essence of virtue is self-control, and that surrender to any external influence is beneath human dignity"

I can live with that. In a highly self satisfied way, of course.

And you're right, I won't be at the Compass AGM. Been there, done that, bought none of it. In the words of the immortal Montagne, "once, a philosopher; twice, a pervert".

And one of the things I would advise anyone about adopting a contrarian/realistic stance to the collected thoughts of New Labour and its assorted melts is that, if you do, on the basis of all the evidence so far, you are never ever likely to be wrong.

Oh. and I might well agree with most of the declared aims and objectives of Compass, less so with its policies, and even less with its politics. And not at all with its attempts at PR puffery.
Posted by Paul McLean (Leeds)
on 30 October 2008, 9:45:59 PM
Come on Jonathon, you can do far better than this. And if it is self-satisfaction you want to criticise, try paying attention next time you read Gavin Hayes’ piece. In anycase, my feelings towards the Compass elite are never those of self-satisfaction; they are more likely those of political contempt. In the self-satisfaction stakes the Hayes peice it is not dissimilar to some past offerings from Neal Lawson and others. SG will doubtless speak for herself in due course and does not need me to defend her. But good god above man if you want to make accusations of cynicism, which are well founded in fact, sit down, have a drink of water and meditate upon the career and pronouncements of Neal Lawson. Even without Lobbygate, this character is in a class of his own. If there is one accusation members of Compass should think very carefully about before making, that of cynicism is surely it.



Posted by Jonathon Hawkes (Fleet)
on 30 October 2008, 8:22:29 PM
My god, you two - it's almost beyond belief. I don't think I've ever come across such self satisfaction in my life. SG and Paul, it's clear that you profoundly disagree with the policics, aims and objectives of Compass - therefore it follows that you will also find fault with any independent article that comments in anything other than a critical way on the organisation.

It is a peculiarity of the Left- getting involved with an organisation with the sole purpose of turning into something that it never set out to be? Or is it some kind of online self-flagellation?

I'd have to agree with Gavin on this - high level in the volume of comments, very little in constructive contribution. If, it's not Paul's close-typed theroreticals not seen since 'Newsline' circa 1985, it's a cynicism and contrarism from SG that would put Claire Fox to shame.

And i'm left feeling - as always - what is the point of these contributions? I'd love the chance to discuss this further with you both at the AGM, but I'm guessing you won't be there.

Posted by Salfordgal (London)
on 30 October 2008, 4:33:17 PM
"Gavin might mildly criticise neo-liberalism. But he has no interest at all in changing anything of substance."

I don't disagree with you, Paul. As the article said, "...full of the self-obsessed fawning after power...', and it covers Compass's stance quite accurately. Strategically, for Compass, puffery is politics and politics is puffery. Such is the way of things in the New Labour court, I'm afraid. However, the course seems well set for a hung parliament so I'm not too concerned about the Compass retreat into fantasy land.
Posted by Paul McLean (Leeds)
on 30 October 2008, 3:09:24 PM
SG, whilst I agree with the point you make and think it certainly should have been made, you might be inadvertently letting Gavin off the hook from which he should be allowed to swing. He does the pained more in sorrow than in anger bit rather too well to be convincing; but let that pass. His piece is as you describe it. - But not exclusively, nor even predominantly so. It is political first and foremost. It cogently articulates a strand of firmly ‘new labour’ ideology and with it, the views of one who has been given the neo-liberal individualist status and emancipation which directly arises from the deliberate destruction of reformist socialist politics. Gavin might mildly criticise neo-liberalism. But he has no interest at all in changing anything of substance. His working life to-date, here and in Demos, has been dedicated to pushing the political middle ground to the Right and to ensuring that Labour remains indispensable to defending that re-located middle ground. He is The Project, through and through.

I suggest that there is also a decidedly more prosaic, specifically Compass reason for Gavin’s status enhancing piece. During this year there have been heroic attempts to contrive that Compass is something more than a one-man band. These attempts have not always been successful. Two members of the management committee in particular come to mind. They emerged, each wrote a piece for this site and disappeared from view. In addition, as we know Jon Trickett MP, felt himself excluded from Compass decision making and has subsequently moved on to other ‘new labour’ pastures with something of a two fingered flourish towards those unwilling to give him his due.
Posted by Paul (Here ..... Somewhere)
on 30 October 2008, 12:11:35 PM
If not else , one statistic is worth repeating.

During New Labour's reign , we now have 1 in 4 of the population living below the accepted Poverty Line ( defined as less than 60% of the Average wage ).

Instead of a gradual decrease in this horrific number by a re-distribution of wealth through fiscal measures , New Labour are increasing their " Social war " on the disabled \ the elderly \ the carers by totalling ignoring the weak at the expense of what can only be described as " Market forces " ?

The weak need protection against market forces ... and , perhaps , more importantly , a government blind as to it's responsibilities to the weakest in this Sad New World.
Posted by Salfordgal (London)
on 30 October 2008, 11:07:07 AM
The key point is that it is pure puffery and, on the assumption that learning from experience is within the bounds of possibliity, pointing out that fact is an immensely constructive contribution, in my ever so humble opinion, Gavin.
Posted by Gavin (London)
on 30 October 2008, 10:57:10 AM
The point I am making is that calling an article 'pure puffery' isn't a very constructive contribution, it doesn't bode well for an informed debate to simply dismiss the article in this manner. Why not instead pick up on some of the issues raised in the article instead?
Posted by Robert (Swansea)
on 30 October 2008, 8:35:57 AM
I think this report sums up new Labour.

Mendelson, the global market is the only way forward, there is nothing wrong with the global market what went wrong was control, the left is wrong and cannot be allowed to return to the 1983 manifesto.

The left must not be allowed to return.

I think that just about sums up new Labour, again I say whats the difference between New Labour and the Tories, why not vote Tory.

Because many of the Tory voters who over the past three terms must be asking the same, why not vote Tory and have the real thing then voting New Labour and having well a bunch of wankers.


Save Labour how can you save something which has had the last rites and been buried.
Posted by Politique (Donacster)
on 29 October 2008, 7:31:25 PM
Sorry the last comment was mine. Please feel free to comment GAVIN?
Posted by  
on 29 October 2008, 7:29:15 PM
What I specifically like about Salfordgal is her passion, enthusiasm, tenacity and straight to the point no nonsense approach to debate. "Saying it as it is" is not what what the contemporary Labour Party wish to here. On observing many of these debates on Compass, it would appear that when contributors are more intellectual, talented, knowledgable and enthusiastic then the authors , it brings out the immaturity of some. I might not agree with everything Salfordgal cites, but I certainly believe her style of debate is lacking in every four corners of left wing intellectual debate. I also believe you have lost the arguement Gavin.
Posted by Neil Foster (Morpeth)
on 29 October 2008, 7:26:34 PM
A thoughtful article about someone who works incredibly hard for Compass. Good stuff Musab.
Posted by Salfordgal (London)
on 29 October 2008, 6:08:17 PM
I'd be hurt by your criticism, Gavin, if I wasn't already wise to the world of PR puffery and partisan (or should that be sub-partisan?) rancour. Moaning? well here's a moan from 27 October 2008, 11:23:16 PM:

"Why not get into the spirit of things and start to look at the big picture, which is one of a depression brought down on our heads by incompetent anglo government's who shirked the task of sensibly managing their financial sectors, leaving them to act like emotionally and physically incontinent and greedy children let loose in a casino where anything goes, and pretty much everything has."

Anyone with an IQ greater than 2 disagree?

And "Never anything constructive to contribute"? I guess for those of your readers who do happen to have an IQ greater than 2, the rest of the post might well count as a constructive contribution:

"Use the welfare system to get money to the poor on the basic Keynsian argument that the have a higher propensity to spend than others (plus, they need it most because the poor have been sidelined in the New Labour credit paradise for the last eleven years and they deserve a bit of looking after - the pensioners, disabled, incapacitated, carers and unemployed). Prune the benefit registers of gang related and other serious fraud, imprison, deport and seize assets where necessary.

"Use Northern Rock, perhaps in conjuction with the post office system, as a banking utility, taking deposits, transferring cash, making personal loans, mortgage loans and business loans and thereby maintaining a credible basic internal banking system

"Investigate the activities of all players in the financial system, freeze their assets, under anti-terrorist legislation or whatever, apply the criminal law, and fund the legal aid system to help individuals and groups of individuals to pursue claims against the institutions and their controlling individuals for unjust enrichment and unjustified enrichment.

"Then legislate for a referendum or a citizens' convention to consider the virtues of embedding further globalisation measures and the virues of ridding ourselves of embedded globalisation legislation governng the movement of capital, labour and high value added services such as legal and accountancy advice, management consultancy, architectural projects, and intellectual property rights.

"Limit the ability of business in every sector to enjoy the privilege of limited liabilty, and assume the basic business form to be that of sole trader or partnership and out-sourcing to be exceptional rather than the rule.

"Encourage the growth of trades unions with a full range of mutual functions including saving and leaning.

"Fully nationalise the railways to maintain the system when the operating contracts can no longer be financed by insolvent contractors and are thereby in breach, and full nationalise the London Underground.

"Rescind all PFIs which cannot be fully financed by the operatiing contractors and investigate all involved parties since inception for unjust and unjustifiable enrichment and fraud.

"Make it illegal to operate a public relations business for money and to make any contact with government or any other public agencies, including overseas corporations, punishable by imprisonment and confiscation of assets."

Posted by Gavin (London)
on 29 October 2008, 4:43:26 PM
I think most of the huffs and puffs on this website are made by you Salfordgal. :-) Never anything constructive to contribute, it's all moan moan moan. I'd importantly point out though that we did not commission this - Musab is an independent journalist who works for an independent magazine, I'd never met him before he asked to come in to have a chat, these are the words/opinions of someone outside Compass, like some of you he's not even a member of Compass. I don't mind you being critical that's all good, but please please say something constructive about the issues. There's nothing in this article that suggests I'm against public ownership of utilities, it's definitely a serious option we should be openly debating - in fact thanks to our members we are going to have such a debate at our AGM on Saturday.
Posted by Dugsie (North Yorkshire)
on 29 October 2008, 4:27:45 PM
The LRC programme is mainstream social democratic. If Compass are serious they should stop consorting with the enemies of social democracy.
Posted by susan press (hebden bridge)
on 29 October 2008, 3:43:36 PM
Desperately needed subbing ....and less self-congratulation. Windfall tax, even if implemented, would not be enough. Utilities should go back into public ownership. Usual dismissal of "hard left" - which Compass should be building bridges with, not dissing
Posted by Salfordgal (London)
on 29 October 2008, 11:53:14 AM
Pure puffery. Absolutely self indulgent navel gazing.

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